It was not a good night for any Canadian hockey fan other then the Canucks and the few Flames fans laughing at the fact the Oilers lost. I can't really say much about the team cause as usual I can't watch them... Living in Alberta sucks when your a Sens fan not so bad when your an Oilers fan to though.

While blaming the likes of Heatley, Spezza and Alfredson for our scoring troubles would be easy. It's not fair. There are other players on this that should be able to produce not just those 3. Where's Vermette? Fisher? Anybody else? It's simple there not there. Other then Vermette, Foligno, and of course our big three none of the other forwards have impressed me at all. Vermette hasn't scored but then again he hasn't had many breaks either when it comes to scoring and same could be said for Foligno.

The team still lack a second line center as Fisher and Kelly would be better 3rd and 4th line centers. We need a guy like Comrie who really helped spark this team when Spezza was down in 06 but not to many good centers are available. I doubt there's much that can be done maybe a trade will magically bring this team back to life but my hope is down lower then the US economy right now.

I'd say if things don't improve by the end of December don't look for quick fix. (Like we did last year by trading with Carolina) look towards what and who will help this team next year.

Hey Devon man i hear ya. Especially what you said about not improving by december. You know what guys i miss the most? Chara, Comrie and Redden. Complete wrong direction.

But if you look at our team player for player we are a great balanced team. They just dont have the best chemistry. Id say this year Ottawa is a gold mine at the trade deadline cause we have some great players that other teams want. And you know what, alot of our players would absolutely thrive on other teams. Id hate to say it but i agree with Riddick for once. We have gotten downright stale.

Go Sens

Hey by the way Jon the game was televised on the NHL network and we had a great 1st period, alot of pressure and alot of shots. We jus didnt get those lucky breaks. And you should have saw the last 15 min. New York got one or two shots and we spent alot of time in their end and it payed off with 2 goals. Very typical ottawa goals as well, a tap in from Heatley and a net crasing with Spezza puttting one home. Really helps when we get shots from the slot. We seemed to ignore being real defensive and put on an all out pressure.

I'm only going to say this once......  I don't want to hear any bandwagoning here. I called this much earlier, than most of you did and I got ridiculed for it. I hope some of yous get the same.

You same people that criticized me earlier are maybe seeing my point a little bit. This isn't a great team. Even a trade or even two.....  how could this make a team that can compete with the likes of Montreal, Detroit, San Jose? You get the picture.

Kelly is not worth even half his salary, and neither is Neil, or Gerber, or McAmmond, hell even Heatley and do an extent Spezza however I do think Spezza has untapped potential whereas Heatley doesn't. I said earlier to gut this team because there is no more going up for this team, as THIS TEAM HAS FINALLY CLIMAXED. Vermette, Kelly, Neil, Fisher, Schubert, Picard, and Donovan are 1 of two things. Complete fodder and are nothing but dead weight, the others are serviceable players that are grossly overpaid and thought more highly of than they should be. Everyone loves Fisher and he plays his heart out, but 4.2mil (6mil in salary) is grossly overpaid. Doesn't matter if someone else would have given it to him, because we did and we're not getting our money's worth out of him.

There is no talent on this blueline what so ever. Kuba has some PP skills, but is incredibly soft, and that's putting it mildly. The WHOLE defense including Phillips and Volchenkov should be on the block. No that doesn't mean give them away for nothing. It means instead of keeping them and letting there contracts run out, trade them to a team where they fit. So that they're 3rd and 4th defenseman on a team where they should be not 1-2 defenseman. Fisher is a 3rd liner and it's that simple. Donovan, McAmmond, Schubert, Picard, Neil, and Gerber are nothing but cap space killers.

Phillips, Fisher, Volchenkov, Vermette and Kuba could probably fetch us 1st rounders at the trade deadline. You can all forget about doing it now because this team is front and center in the desperate department now and no one will offer us anything decent right now for these bums. 3 weeks ago however they were worth a lot more and are the same players then they are now. However now we have to wait until other teams get desperate.

Zubov actually played fairly well tonight, so did Auld, however he should've had the 3rd goal. No matter, the first two goals were thanks to some shoddy defense.

JON,.......  the coaching can't even be considered here. It's too easy to lay the blame for this pathetic team at the feet of the poor coaches. Paddock, Murray and Hartsburg are the problems? How many coaches will it take to come to the conclusion that this team isn't any good? Murray has done a piss poor job and should be fired.

Anyone want to know why Montreal is doing so well? Plain and simple. Because idiots like Murray and Muckler let all our talent evaluators head over to Montreal. Look at them now..... Like I said this is going to be a long season, and everyone outside of Alfredsson, should be trade bait, Spezza and Heatley would have to bring massive returns, but still attainable. People this team was dominatied for the most part by the worst team in the NHL..... That's not coaching.....that's not a tweek away from rebounding...... this is a downward spiraling team. As fans we need to remove our heads from the sands and worry about next year, the quicker the start the less pain we'll suffer.

NIce Pun Jon. I still think its too early to start talking about destroying this team and doing what Toronto did. The team just needs to play an all out offensive game unlike what Hartsburg is saying. He says we are changing from an explosive offensive team to a more defensive team. Bullshit. We dont need to baby Auld like many are saying. We need a ton more of offensive pressure and more defensive pinching. Defense would be much less of an issue if we spent more time in other team's ends. And how are we gonna do that if we just try and stay back alot. It seems like Ottawa plays as if they have a 3 goal lead all of the time.

Maybe it is Murray but lets not go crazy and go for that asshole Burke.

Go Sens

Again going to blame the coach for this teams struggles is retarded. Last year I do think Paddock wasn't that great cause of what he did with the goaltenders and everything else. Does this team miss some of it's players it's had? Yes, but that happens when you go to the stanely cup final. Players think they deserve more then they should get and things go down hill. Pittsburg and Detroit haven't suffered yet but they will when players like Stall, Franzen have to be resigned.

Giving up on Heatley, Spezza or Alfredson would be foolish. There are very few Centers out there as talented as Spezza and he could not be easily replaced. As for those wanting to get rid of him does anyone remember Lecaviler? Everyone thought he was going to be a guy with a lot of talent but never know how to use it. Well look at him now.

So Keeping Spezza, Heatley, Alfredson, either Foligno or Vermette or both. Then keep Kuba and Picard and well decide which defensive defenseman specialist to keep. And keep Auld and let Gerber go and spend his money on something else. You can include Fisher and a few others like Ruutu.

Fisher and Phillips both have no movement clauses, getting rid of these 2 would be very hard to do. Fisher is well rooted into the comunity and he will not budge on his contract. Phillips wants to remain a Sen till he retires, my guess is he will not budge either. My personal opinion is that Spezza will be looking to buy a new house somewhere other than Ottawa, I think he is on his way out the door. What will we get for him? No-one knows at this point, I think he is valuable to the Sens but someone has to pay a price and with the blind passes and giveaways he does on a regular basis, he may be the one to take the blunt of it all. Who knows, what they do receive for him might be the peice of the puzzle they are actually missing.

It's the coaching.  Leafs proved it with that fluke coach Maurice who got to the finals once with a really good team then he bummed out straight 3 yrs in a row with the Buds.  Hartsburg is good at what he does at the farm/junior level, other than that he cannot coach in the pros.  Wasn't he let go before on another NHL team?  I find GM Murray to be a little puzzling since he did a pretty good job with the Ducks before he was fired but with the Sens it's not the same and your team owner shows he not cheap in spending the dollars. You guys are last place or along those lines. Haven't seen that since the early days of the Sens with Billington in net.

My opinion : Get a better coach then if that doesn't work for 2 yrs get rid of GM Murray.

Some of you guys are still blaming Spezza and want rid of him? Are you people crazy? Like I said before he's not the only player out there. Giving up on him will have us regretting it down the road just like Chara. Hartsburg might want to try and work with the lines strengths though. It can't hurt to tell the top two lines to take a few more chances. What's the worst that can happen we lose more? They better get somewhat competitive before they come to Edmonton I don't want to be the only Sens fan there watching a blow out. I'll never hear the end of it.

JON......  I actually liked the pun as well, pretty witty I must say. JON.....   What you're failing to realize is that this isn't 6 games. You seem to forget last season as well. You seem to have a selective memory. This team (CORE OF THIS TEAM) fell off the wagon months ago. Heatley persevered in the World Championships for the same reasons I'm saying he's failing now. He played with Getzlaf and Nash. If you watched the Worlds you would have noticed that he played with 2 players that go into the corners and win battles. They went into the corners because when Heatley goes in he comes out on his ass.

Spezza is the same type of player. However Spezza will be a 30+ goal scorer and 90+ point player regardless of who he plays with. Healtey will not succeed in this league without skilled wingers. He's not fast, gritty, a good puck handler, or a leader. He has an amazing release, but not much else. Spezza I can see get better, but definitely his game needs work.

Secondly Jon, I'm not saying they all have to go, I'm saying everyone on this team could be had. Spezza, Heatlley could be had but for an offer you couldn't refuse. Yes every player is overpaid, I'm speaking in reference to the NHL pay scale. Simply we're paying stiffs scorers type money instead of 3rd and 4th line type money.

Jon.....  are you telling me Heatley has earned his 10mil? He's the teams highest paid player, and can you honestly say he has ever single handedly won this team a game? I mean when Alfy and Spezza did not play with him, and the games mattered can you remember Heatley putting together a performance you'll forever remember? 10mil later I'm sure we'll all be waiting.

Spezza? Well I do recall the year Ottawa was knocked out by the Sabres, Spezza and Havlat were our best players that playoff year, and to think he's was playing on a back that required surgery....and what was Heatley's excuse? Probably the same reason he did well at the Worlds and was invisible in last years playoffs.

You could bring in Scotty Bowman, and this team will not perform much better. Just take a good luck at the bulk of this team. There really isn't much talent on it. To boot they take up more cap space than they deserve.

MATT..... Spezza just bought a house that was at one time selling for 6mil. I don't think he paid that but needles to say he spent pretty good money on it. It's actually a nice place just off of Island Park Dr.

Jon.....  one last thing, just for the record I have no problem with GM's overpaying for the likes of Crosby, Ovechkin, hell I'll even keep quiet about Spezza and Heatley and the money they make. Kelly at 2.3mil? Ruuttu at 1.3mil to play on your 4th line? Neil 1.1mil who has scored on 1 goaltender this year. The reason these guys are paid like this, is because these are the guys that should've been let go long ago. Because if you're a good organization these are the players after their 3rd or 4th raise are the guys you let go for the young players that you draft and develop. Kelly, Vermette, Neil, Schubert, and Fisher can't come close to earning the money they pull down. If you're winning it's not a problem. Hell if you're going to over pay that's not a problem either if you have to overpay....but for god sakes overpay for players that you need. Instead of overpaying Kelly, take that 2mil and pay Brian Campbell, Marian Hossa, Markus Naslund, etc.....

Because we need a player like the afformentioned players, and now it's going to cost us a huge salary anyways, and a roster player and probably a draft pick. Wonder if Murray is regretting not paying in the offseason now?

Well well Riddick, the reason I made the comment of Spezza looking to buy a house elsewhere is because I knew he had just bought a house in the summer. Dont think I do my homework before I make a comment? Better think again. And as for you thinking you know everything, you dont , your probably a lonely old man with no life and you have nopthing better to do than bitch at other ppeople. Would you please at some point in your essays you put on here, make a little sense and put something worthwhile reading!! As for Brian Campell, Blackhawks paid to much< yes he is a good d-man but in Ottawa he would be just another Redden, a bum. Hossa was here once, couldnt get the job done. Naslund is past his prime and likes to get injured. Kelly........ is not overpaid. Give him someone to play with then judge.

Matt......  don't get your panties in a bunch, I made the comment about Spezza buying a house because you brought up players that have roots in the community. Spezza just bought a house worth millions of dollars I'd consider that a pretty decent investment into the community. Why the hell would he be wanting to look for another house when he just spent millions on a house here? Think before you type.

Sure the Blackhawks overpaid for Campbell, he was a UFA that's what's supposed to happen. However the Blackhawks paid for a piece of the puzzle they needed. Kelly not overpaid? He's making more than 2mil a year. Give him someone to play with? You're talking like he's a 1st or 2nd line player. He's a decent PK player, and a run of the mill 5 on 5 player. Yes he had a good stretch 2 years ago when the team had a few injuries. Sorry Matt but that run is over, think Chris Kelly.....think a poor mans Fernando Pisani. Plus..... Foligno, Winchester, Alfredsson, Neil, and Vermette have all played on the top line. Kelly doesn't get the chance because he's done sweet f-all to deserve a shot up there.

Lastly Matt......Naslund like to get injured......wow Mr. Homework.....  back to back 82 games played and 81 the year before that. I tip my hat to ya Mr. Homework.....

Calm down here guys it's bad enough when we start fighting with the Leafs and Habs fans let alone each other.

Riddick: I understand your frustration, but again ( and I've said this more then once) Who/what exactly do you think you'll get for Kelly/Fisher/Vermette/Neil/Donovan.....etc.  because If I'm not mistaken, you've basically called them crap, soooo  you should expect crap in return, so where do you get better?, remember we're talking fourth line players here( well Fisher/Vermette aren't, but you get my meaning) ,  And again, trade them to who? What team would want them ( especially when they are "Overpaid dead weight" Even at trade deadline, in a cap era, who would fork up a first rounder for Fisher and take the 2.1( this year) and 4.2 for the rest?

Also seeing as the average salary in the NHL is 1.9 mill per player, Mcammond 0.875 mill/ Picard 0.800 mill ( who's 22 yrs old btw, still time to grow) Donovan 0.600 mill, Schubert 0.833 mill ....etc even Neil @ 1.1 and Ruutu @ 1.3 are still below league average, so what the hell do you want for that type of money? ( relatively speaking, I'd kill to make that much money) you say they are a waste of cap space....if anything they are saving cap space, Bring up rookies, to what, play 6-7 min per game if that? that'll really boost their confidence/growth. Face it  My friend the Sens are stuck ( for better or worse) with what they got, as are all teams. Whining bout it ( over and over ) isn't going to help. Do I have the perfect solution?, No. If I did, I probably wouldn't be talking to you, I'd be in a front office running a Professional hockey team.

Here's a thought,maybe you should take your idea's to Murray and see what he thinks? I mean, if you think you are " The man with the plan" Murray should see reason and do as you suggest....right?

We have some of the players on this team they are just not in the right place. Fisher and Kelly should be 3rd and 4th line players and good penalty killers. They aren't offensive players like some might want but are excellent at being shut down centers.  Vermette is a good second line player he had 56 points last year so there is no doubt in my mind he can get to 60 points every year.

This teams most glaring need are that alot of the players we have can't play the positions where they would be best at. We need a second line center... I've said that since last year. We need a defenseman like a Bouwmeester to be a top d man and run the powerplay. And also someone that will work with Spezza and Heatley and compliment them. You fill those needs and the other pieces would fall in place with what we already have.

Donkeypunch.....  I think you're interpreting what I'm saying as a strategy to save the season. I'm not. I'm merely saying forget this season. Forget the playoffs, because even 1 or 2 good pieces will only make us competitive and for how long? What I'm suggesting is use this season for the impressive farm hands we have to get their feet wet. I never said I expected to get anything for Donovan, Schubert, McAmmond, Neil, or Kelly...... Just get them off the books so that NEXT SEASON we have guys like Zubov, Caxk Smith, Karlsson, and Elliott will enter next year with their feet already wet. Factor in the up-coming draft is even deeper than last year's and we already have 2 1st rounders....hell dish Vermette, or Fisher one of them could fetch us a 1st rounder. The cap space saved will give us the 2nd line center we don't have 6.2mil can buy an awful lot.

DEVON I think gets what I'm saying. Lets use Fisher as an example. Fisher last year scored 20 goals, however he scored goals when the team found it easy to score. This year, we need him to score, and what has he produced? He's pulling down 6mil 4.2mil cap hit. He's more suited as a 3rd line center because he isn't good enough to be competing against other teams' top 4 defenseman.

Vermette and Kelly will never be anything more than filler that excell killing penalties. You think when their contracts are done they'll be ready to accept a decreasing salary? Of course not and they shouldn't have to.....But we don't have to give it to them is my point.

DONKEYPUNCH......  I don't mind the Ruuttu signing. My problem is paying him 1.3mil to play a 4th line roll. You can't pay a 4th liner that doesn't score much 1.3mil no matter how gritty he plays when you have a roster full of players like him that don't score either. When you have a team of 3rd and 4th liners you have to be paying your 4th line peanuts, unless Ruuttu is the final piece of the puzzle, and I think we all agree he's not the final piece of this puzzle by a long shot. None the less a useful player, but he wasn't what we needed.

Like I said, Murray's excuse for not getting Campbell was that he didn't like the price. But he needs a Campbell type player now doesn't he? So now if he wants Campbell or a player like him, he's going to take a hefty contract anyways.....  and unlike in the offseason, this defenseman will cost us assets.

All in all this season is a wrtie-off but Edmonton did it right, Gagner, Gilbert, Cogliano, and Brodziak all got their feet wet and yes the Oilers struggled. But they're much improved this year because they used last year to get their young players experience. Sone give me the names of our last impact rookie? How many rookies have we even had be consistent contributers over the past 4 years? Part of the problem is they don't get a chance because Murray etc don't give them a chance to learn with the big boys. Lets face it.....the young players are the players that carry this league.

I hope the boys can turn the ship around, but I just don't think we have the talent to do it.......  lets start rebuilding it has to start sometime. This up-coming offseason gives us a chance to rebuild and rebuild fast and infuse some top talent both through the draft by shedding the Fisher's and Vermette's for high draft picks, and it also sheds salary to land a Bouwmeester, Kovalchuk, Hossa, or hell even Sundin if he'd actually help. Point is we have a great chance to rebound and improve our organization dramatically this year, but it has to come at the cost of yesteryear that it appears none of you are willing to let go of.

DONKEYPUNCH......   Like you, Murray wouldn't listen to me, you, or hell he probably wouldn't even listen to god in terms of what he thinks he should do about the team. However, this is a Canadian market, and when the teams struggles he gets paid well to hear the criticism. For all I know he reads these blogs? I've been saying we should be bringing up the farmhands and finally Bell, Zubov, and Shannon have made their way up. Maybe he is listening  lol  (jk)

I want to see the team succeed every bit you all do, but for the price of tickets, watching this garbage on a regular basis is unacceptable. Yes we've had a good run, and I would pay and support the team through a youth movement, but to stick with the same players year in and year out especially after last season. Just in case you all forget.....THIS CORE GROUP  nearly made history by having the fastest start and having to make the playoffs ass first. Do any of you remember this? Any of you remember who the carry over players are? Emery was the problem he's gone......Redden was the problem?  he's gone.....  do we all see an improvement?  Agreed, this core group needs to be blown up.

Lastly, I'll say it again, I don't want the rookies up here playing 6-7 minutes, let Neil, McAmmond and who ever you can't deal away play those minutes and give the young guys 11-13 minutes a game. Hell we'd probably start winning some games again.

Riddick: True, maybe I'm interpreting your post incorrectly, but blowing it up seems a bit radical at this point, to me anyways. Shop for what you desperately need........a Goalie, a good one that is, Auld has been playing well, but every team needs to know that when it's crunch time their goalie will make that ONE save that turns the tide/hold the other team at bay, ya know confidence, which in my mind ( at least) is what the Sens are sorely lacking at the moment, which stems from not having a bonafide #1.

True this team has MAJOR problems, and unless you're Detroit ( who seems to draft 1st line players like they are a dime a dozen) every team is 3-4 years removed from being at the top to being in the basement, we've all learned that throwing money at free agents doesn't work anymore, not in a cap era. To sum it up What I think everyone is tryin to say is it's not as easy as that to trade /get rid of almost the entire roster.

Edmonton didn't  " do it right " they did it because 1. They finished poorly and were able to draft that kind of talent, 2. Who else did they have to fill their roster? No one, for what ever reason, was going to Edmonton via Free agency, well not many anyways, And lets not get into their ridiculous offer sheets again, get my meaning. While it's still to early to tell playing them so young and in such important minutes can, in some ways, hinder a young players development, we'll see. It's a delicate balance i suppose veteran/rookie mix, but don't believe for a second that they wanted to play 5-6 rookies at one time.

DONKEYPUNCH........ I get where you're coming from on a lot of points, but you really think it's radical to blow the team up at this point? Again are you looking at 18 games into the season or are you choosing to forget about last year and the humiliation we suffered in the post season? I like you would love to forget about all of last year, more than you know and thank god we have the same core this year right? But wait.....This year seems a lot like last year if you ask me?

As for Edmonton, they definitely had different options, it took moxy to keep a player like Gagner around when they could've sent him back to junior. In fact because he had played that's a year less he has to play to become a UFA. However, look where he is now......  if they had sent him back he'd likely be the player he was last year, not the player he is this year. You have to look at it from both sides.

I agree with you about the goaltending, and Auld has performed admirably. But I think Auld will earn the confidence of the players but yes it will take time, and I believe it will take more time than this group has. In saying so, it's obvious we're not going to get that #1 goaltender, and obviously you agree this team won't pull it together until we get one.....  so why do you think it's so radical to blow the team up when the core group of players here have played like basement dwellers dating all the way back to mid season of last year? Is our defense better than it was last year? Better defensively I'll agree, but what's being sacrificed to be better defensively is hurting us offensively. Are the forwards better? I don't think they are.....  and the goaltending? Auld has been better than either Emery or Gerber last year I agree, but it hasn't been good enough to allow the players to play a comfortable game.

For your Red Wings comment, people seem to neglect to think of this...... maybe their rookies get better, because they actually get a chance to play. Murray needs to grow some guts. Yes having some rookies in the lineup, will hurt in the short term.....I am aware of that, but really, leaving a whole handful of rookies in the minors that are excelling for the sake of keeping Donovan, Schubert, Kelly, McAmmond, and then signing Richardson? I believe Murray is putting himself above the team and I guess I can't blame him really. Playing the rookies was riskier than playing the veterans. So he put his job security above the betterment of the team I think.

As for your point about Edmonton not wanting to play 5-6 rookies. I agree who does? But instead of going out and signing stiffs to millions of dollars to play on the 4th line, they gave their future a good look, and had faith in their coach to teach the young guys properly, and they are easily one of the better up and coming teams in the league.

Lastly, The rebuilding phase is coming...... Lee, E. Karlsson, M. Karlsson, Z. Smith,  c. Bass, B. Elliott, J. O' Brien.....  at this rate McAmmond, Neil, Ruuttu, Schubert, Kelly, etc.....  all have at least 3 years left of their careers...... Are these guys suppose to rot in the minors forever, so this group can have another 3+ years to try and get done what they haven't been able to do the previous 5? Sorry guys just don't see it, sometimes it happens, you get close but just don't win. We have an opportunity to get very good assets, but only if you make the decision at the right time, and the longer Murray waits the less he'll get unless he waits til the deadline. However if he waits til the deadline, I'd pretty much guarantee Murray will be out of a job.